User talk:ToxicCosmos

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Bulk pages for itemgroups
Hey Toxic, I was wondering what you would think about making itemgroup/research line pages instead of a page per item, especially as the goods in Swords and Potions are not especially notable in themselves. I was thinking that perhaps it would make it easier to edit and cut down the painful maintenance of groups? Anyway, if you could leave a message here with your thoughts on this, I'll check back :) Techhead7890 23:47, June 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * I actually like that idea much more than how it is now. I was just following what was already being used. What do you have in mind? A page for all the items? or a page for all items of a given group? And are you thinking of putting everything in a given table? I'd love to help with this. :] Let me know. ToxicCosmos 11:22, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * Ok. I took a look at the Potions page you've been working on. I made a few cosmetic edits and added more information that the single pages are using. The only things it lacks are the research cycle, list of buyers and a list of possible suggestions.
 * Ok. I took a look at the Potions page you've been working on. I made a few cosmetic edits and added more information that the single pages are using. The only things it lacks are the research cycle, list of buyers and a list of possible suggestions.


 * While for the most part it's simpler to keep everything on one page, my worry is that people are most likely going to be doing searches for the item and I don't know if items in the table with show up. I think it would be more likely that it will show up along with any other page that mentions the item whereas if there is a page with that title, it automatically opens that page.


 * At the same time, I know there might also be other people who will go to the worker page (sorceress or blacksmith, etc.) and try and find an item there. In those cases, I think it's likely that they don't know what the name of the item is or are just browsing. In which case, I think it's more important for them to see the item instead of just the name of it. This got me thinking. Maybe it would be best if we use the worker's main page to show the items themselves in their research cylce. Example: image of Iron gauntlets (right-arrow) Fine gauntlets (right-arrow) Ice gauntlets. Then we just make the images clickable and it takes them to that page.


 * What do you think? ToxicCosmos 08:39, June 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the late reply! I was thinking roughly of itemgroup pages or research-chain/cycle pages (not exactly like potions, although that was where I got the idea from). I've also been following with the formats that were placed; but the main thing I'd like to do (for all of our sakes!) is alleviate the strain of multiple edits, having moving over to the next page and repeat the process and so on.


 * Ideally this is sort of similar to the current itemboxes, but instead horizontal (see Dawn of War Horizontal Example. Multiple boxes can be placed on a single page, with description and cycle information placed afterwards (perhaps we could make a research-cycle itembox or template as well? Like Wikipedia's example here, perhaps?


 * My thoughts on searching would be adding redirects (although you can, for example, search for the Front door improvements-http://swordsandpotions.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=front+door&fulltext=0) instead - it's far more important to ease editing and uploading on us, and going around # REDIRECT ((ItemGroup#SpecificItem)) would achieve virtually the same effect.


 * In terms of browsing tables, I think that would be a great idea. I think we already have a few of the item's images and it'd probably be little trouble to string them together into a table or research tree using paint or somesuch. Sadly I don't have much experience with those sort of programs... I might ask around on Kongregate or something if anyone would like to.


 * Anyhow, that's one vision for it; what are your thoughts on where those ideas could go? Techhead7890 T 05:25, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * I can easily create the tree; I have plenty of experience with graphics programs. I think we should keep it simple though, nothing too elaborate. Where do you think would be a good place to put those? The item page? I could create an example on one of those pages to show you what I mean.


 * All the current item pages are pretty much done, though some are missing information. I'd have to agree with you though that having items on grouped pages would make maintanence much easier. Especially if we can redirect people to the correct area on the page. I'll start on an idea for the horiz itembox and you can let me know if it's what you had in mind.


 * By the way, have you requested admin or beuro rights? I think you should. I requested admin rights but haven't heard back yet, you can tag a note onto my request if you'd like. Just go here and look for my post about 3/4 of the way down entitled Swords and Potions Wiki posted on 3 June. This way we can do more on this wiki - and we'll need the rights to delete pages that are no longer needed when we're done.
 * ToxicCosmos 07:55, June 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * Update: Here's what I had in mind with the Research Cycle tree. clicky. I figured something like that would be best on the item page. This way people just browsing have a higher chance of stumbling across it and well, it is the item page. :] What do you think?
 * ToxicCosmos 11:22, June 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * I've also added the Horizontal Infobox to that page.
 * ToxicCosmos 15:34, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * Het toxic. I am fairly new on Wikia but have made a few more pages on here. I like the idea of research cycles. Problem however is that they are hard to find out, usually also have a tree like growth pattern. But it would indeed make things a lot more clear. Hope you might give it a shot again soon.
 * Greetz
 * WikiPim 21:32, July 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * WikiPim 21:32, July 10, 2011 (UTC)

Cortillaen
Hi, I was talking with Techhead in the Kong chat yesterday about this project and figured I ought to drop in to introduce myself. Um... right, done. Anyway, I'd like to help a little, if I can, but I'm mainly going to be focusing on a project of my own. The Customer pages are a mess and far too difficult to use as quick reference material for what a given class will buy, so I'm trying to compile a comprehensive list of each class's buying practices on a single page. I'm also trying to identify all of the game's item types, primarily to create a sort of at-a-glance buying practices page (this is the general idea). Not to be confused with Techhead's item groups (by which I am taking him to mean research chains), I'm looking at which items share the same properties in terms of what classes will buy them and getting the similarity bonus to suggestion chances. In support of this, and also as its own project, I'd like to start a single, comprehensive list of every item, its type, price, and whether each class of customers will buy it.

My problem is, simply, that I have no experience at all with wikia, wikis in general, or producing understandable game analysis for anyone but myself. In fact, I just hope I'm putting this spiel in the right place since I'm not even familiar with "talk page" posting practices. The closest I've come to wiki editing is adding some example entries to tvtropes. Needless to say, any sort of advice, direction to guides, assistance on aesthetics, etc. would be greatly appreciated. My biggest problem right now is the width of the table in the linked page. Turning the classes vertically would probably be the best solution, but I have no idea how that could be done, assuming it even could.

The comprehensive list will look much like that page, just vastly longer since it's intended to contain every item in the game (eventually). My hope is that other people will assist in filling it in, particularly the checks, xs, and question marks (I intend to use purple question marks as an "rumored/unconfirmed" indicator, whereas blank will simply mean no data at all). I'd also like to flag any items that do not seem to conform to normal types, such as the Leather Coat (functions as a Light/Cloth/Robe Body Armor, but Monks, which only take that type, won't buy it. I've also got a note to put up somewhere (advice one how and where would be great) to make people aware that a sufficiently large price difference can cause a 0% chance suggestion that looks like the customer class won't take that item when they really will. I've confirmed this multiple times across seven customer classes so far. Anyway, as stated above, any help or direction you (or anyone) could provide will be much appreciated. Cortillaen 02:53, June 9, 2011 (UTC)


 * Hi Cortillaen! Welcome to the Wiki!


 * I'd have to agree that customer pages are pretty difficult to read right now. I, myself don't always know which character is which, nor do I know much about what they accept or don't. I see the checks and x's on the table you're working on. I have to ask, since I don't know much about it, if a given customer will accept one type of light armor and not another. Or if they accept one, will they accept them all? That's what the checks and x's seem to communicate, so I want to be sure.


 * As for making the table vertical, I'm afraid you'd have to do that by hand - add/remove columns/rows and fill them in.


 * In the section abover this conversation, you can read where Techhead and I were talking about creating a page with a general list of all items that would show their research cycle as well as other/another page with a more detailed list seperated into item groups that would contain all the information. Is that what you had in mind as well? Let me know what you think. (You can reply to that post)


 * A quick help for talk pages: when you create a new topic, just click the "add message" button near their username and just add a title and then type what you want to say. When replying, hit the "edit" button next to the title of your message and return and indent (indent button is located on the toolbar above the typing field) then type your reply and add your signiture.


 * Here is a Wikia help guide you might find useful: link.


 * As far as asthetics go, on this test page you can see some table asthetics. As soon as I have access to the css file, I will make it standard so that no one has to do anything to get it to look just right. For now, in the tables you create, for every cell that you want gray (title cells and whatnot) just make sure to identify them as table header (th) cells. This way, when I make the css changes, it will automatically make those changes for you. To identify a cell as a TH cell, right-click it > cell > cell properties, and in the box that pops up, change the "Cell Type" from "Data" to "Header" and you're done. :]


 * I hope I explained everything ok. If anything is confusing, just let me know. ToxicCosmos 06:16, June 9, 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the advice. I've adjusted the tables quite a bit, created vertical class names (had to create and upload an image for each one >_<), and filled in as much as I'm reasonably sure of. I seem to be having an issue with the second section, though. If you check the source/code view for the page, the first table is under the header "Weapons". The second table should be under the header "Armors and Miscallaneous", but the header only shows up if I put some text between it and the end of the first table. I have no idea what's going on with that.


 * Yes, the checks are for "accepts all of this type". I'm thinking of using a purple exclamation point for any class/item type intersections where the class doesn't accept all items of that type (the only class like that I'm aware of is the Monk, who only takes light/cloth gear, but doesn't take all of them). I'll also be adding a question mark for uncertain acceptance, meaning class/item type intersections that need further testing. For now, the tables are, barring the header issue, mostly ready for general consumption. The weapons section needs filled in on the non-accepted portions of most classes, which I'll do as I test them (it'd be nice if some players who use the page as reference helped out, too).


 * For the comprehensive list, I'm thinking of a gigantic table similar to the two I've already put together (maybe split up into separate tables for each item type), with columns for price, token (is it a token recipe), rare materials needed, item type (the types on my current tables), and whether or not the item is accepted by each class. Each of the item names could be a link to the item's individual page, and working in a link to its place in whatever research chain it's a part of shouldn't be too hard. The idea is just to have a single location for players to go to find out the most commonly-needed information on any item. Cortillaen 03:12, June 12, 2011 (UTC)

Adjusting template
Hi,

I am wondering if you could help me adjust the commonly used template for items at this site, so that all values are standard inserted to n/a or 0, and the research and creation time standard has "? hours" in it.

This would help a lot. I tried but failed to find out how to adjust this template.

Thanks in advance.

WikiPim 21:27, July 10, 2011 (UTC)


 * I could make changes. And I already did earlier to set the defined recipe purchase price to a dash, avoiding a faux number value. After viewing research and production as "? hours" it didn't look right, the full value should be typed in to avoid a format conflict. ActiveUnique 07:37, July 19, 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for helping out, ActiveUnique. A few of them may not have changed as I've noticed that some have all the values filled in, even when not used.. Just FYI. I suppose as we come across them, we can fix those manually. And sorry for not getting back to you sooner, WikiPim. I've been focusing on moving lately and haven't had much free time on my hands. ToxicCosmos 19:58, July 19, 2011 (UTC)
 * Happy to see so many people contributing to this wiki as of lately. Thanks for giving it a thought at least. I am a bit of a perfectionist and i noticed that it is less then perfect when not everything is inserted, but some fields accidentally where clicked at.
 * Beside that, i noticed a lot of junk code in a lot of pages showing up. Have been removing it manually so far to keep the code clean and easier to adjust, but it's not funny to see the huge amount of pages affected.
 * Anyways. Hope this wiki gets it swing as it deserves.
 * WikiPim 21:23, July 19, 2011 (UTC)
 * I know what you mean. I've noticed that as well, which is a bit frustrating. I'm not sure why that happens. Maybe we should create a how-to page for editing? I don't know if Wikia is automatically changing code, but I've noticed a lot of things, like links are full urls instead of the normal [ [ item name ] ] to link to a page. *shrug* I'm open to suggestions.
 * ToxicCosmos 21:27, July 19, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, to me it seems like it's yust a matter of bad programming work on the part of Wikia then it is avoidable patterns. At first i thought it was people using Word markup junk, but i noticed it gets randomly inserted when there are for instantly lots of links added (10+). Also noticed that it regularly deletes links in such cases, adds full url's and more junk. Also Wikia seems to have a hard time with adding a line full of URL's. It does automatically add a blank line then. And the most annoying thing is the case sensitivity. Loads of links go dead because of that. And when you adjust with a different name, it regularly (randomly as it seems) changes the to be displayed line to the link name. Oh well, those are minor bugs, although the case sensitivity would be very nice if removed. Do you by chance have admin rights already?
 * Greetz
 * WikiPim 18:55, July 20, 2011 (UTC)
 * I was hoping it wasn't a Wikia thing. haha. It would have been much easier to maintain that way. No, I don't have admin rights. They dismissed my request because I had to focus on moving and didn't have time to be actively editing; understandable. I'm going to try again though. If you're interested, I could send my request and add your name as well on your behalf if you like. It'd be nice to have more people with some more rights to edit the site. :] And you're very active here, so I think you'd do a great job. *shrug* What do you think?
 * ToxicCosmos 19:03, July 20, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, put my name in, that's ok. People think i own this wikia anyways ;)
 * WikiPim 19:14, July 20, 2011 (UTC)

formatting in research cycles
Hi toxic, In the research tree this sign: > means the next item is the following in the line of research.

In research cycles this sign: / stands for item A and item B gets unlocked when the earlier item has been researched. For instance Lute > Performer's Lute / Drums means: When Lute has been researched in full, both Performer's lute and Drums come available in the research tree.

Sometimes however, to unlock an item you will need two other items researched. For instance: Restoration herbs > Antidote + Suple dust > Vial of healing. In this case you need to research both Antidote and Suple dust before Vial of healing becomes available in the research tree.

Hope this helps!

Greetz

WikiPim 06:54, July 20, 2011 (UTC)

Ah ok. I thought that's what it meant, but I wasn't sure. Thanks for clarifying. ^_^

ToxicCosmos 18:33, July 20, 2011 (UTC)

please don't
I noticed you are removing information from a lot of pages which i had carefully inserted from the template of items.

Can you clarify why you do that? I have added that with good reason (buggy wikia inserts sometimes strange symbols when you click the wrong box)

WikiPim 18:58, July 20, 2011 (UTC)


 * I wasn't aware I was removing vital information. :/ Do you mean the infoboxes? I removed the syntax items that don't have any information in them - that way the default info that's inserted into the infobox template shows up. And, should we ever change the default items (0, -, n/a) it will show up on all the pages. I also changed some of the links so that they don't show the full URL and, instead, show the standard Wikia page link code... Or do you mean the paragraph style code that shows up? That was the random code I had mentioned. I've noticed that for a long time, even when I first started helping out, so I didn't think it was intentional. Let me know what you need on those pages and I'll be sure to leave it alone. Sorry. :/


 * ToxicCosmos 19:10, July 20, 2011 (UTC)


 * The great wikia coding... NOT. I noticed that when you click in boxes it adds a zero when you publish the page, and have several times randomly stumbled into getting some weird symbols when the boxes where left empty. Since then i add all info so it's for me a certainty i don't have to re-edit that page each time i make a small edit or so.


 * WikiPim 19:16, July 20, 2011 (UTC)


 * What random symbols? Do you mean the question marks, zeros, and n/a's? If you want to edit the default values (values that are inserted when left blank) for the infobox item templates, you have to do it on the template page.
 * When you go to edit that template, you'll see something like: (without the odd spaces)
 * [ [ Image:blacksmith.png|26px ] ]{ { { bs lvl|n/a } } }
 * In the second part, between the { and }, and after the |, that's the default value - in this case it's n/a. All you have to do is change that value, and all the others to whatever you want it to be when the value is left blank. This way, all the pages will be consistent and we won't have to go through each page every time there is a change.
 * ToxicCosmos 19:24, July 20, 2011 (UTC)
 * Frustration had me several times with editing the pages. But i am happy that you explained me how to change this thing now. It's more how i like it at the moment. Thankfully. It was almost becoming labor with the lots of additions needed to make. Do you know any way to add an option to make an itembox show up in a new page so you can click instead of the standard text with picture or blank page the option itembox page? Would be awesome.
 * Greetz
 * WikiPim 19:52, July 20, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm glad I could help. :] I definitely know how frustrating it is to have to try and monitor all the pages so they're consistent.
 * Unfortunately I haven't figured out page templates yet. Well, actually I have, but they're not very useful. When I created a page template and tried to use it, it inserted the green puzzle icon and I had to go into the source code to see and edit things - too complex/confusing for normal users helping with information. There should be an easier way - I'm just not sure what it is yet. :/
 * ToxicCosmos 20:01, July 20, 2011 (UTC)
 * Have replied in my talk page.
 * WikiPim 07:54, July 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * WikiPim 07:54, July 21, 2011 (UTC)

Admin rights
Have added my confirmation

WikiPim 19:46, July 20, 2011 (UTC)

adoption request
Hi. Your contributions look good and I have given both you and WikiPim admin and bureaucrat rights. Good luck with the wiki! -- Wendy (talk ) 01:53, July 22, 2011 (UTC)

Poke
Hey you,

You ain't around much lately. I am missing your input. What's up?


 * Hey sorry. I'm not feeling too well at the moment. Caught a cold or something - haven't had much desire to do anything because of it. I've been trying to keep an eye on your talk page though.. rather unsuccessfuly it seems as I just found ActiveUnique's reply about templates. I'll get in touch with ActiveUnique about it - to save you some more conversation on your talk page. ;]


 * ToxicCosmos 17:23, July 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * Get well soon.
 * ActiveUnique 18:17, July 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * I knew my talk page is a favorite hangout for a few people out here ;) Shall i get a beer and soda bar set up there? Get well soon mate.


 * Thanks; both of you. :] And that sounds like a great idea, WikiPim. ;p
 * ToxicCosmos 19:26, July 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * Come in and enjoy a beer, soda, liquor and snack for free.
 * It's open 24/7

CSS on sig
Hey Toxic,

I was sent here by ActiveUnique because he found my sig too long.

Mind sharing your thoughts and input on CSS or things to make it smaller/ more convenient without losing any of it's coolness/ nice looking/ information? I have absolutely no idea what he is talking about, so please bear with me.

Sig can be found here

Removing admin rights
Het toxic,

Because you have other priorities, i think it's better to avoid confusion that i remove your admin rights.

When you want to contribute again, i might consider adding those rights again if you need them.

I completely understand. Good luck with everything.

ToxicCosmos 18:13, August 17, 2011 (UTC)